Your thoughts on using dual intercoolers

[wicked93gs]

well, I have a project car I'm doing an engine swap in....its a 1984 Pontiac Fiero, anyway this engine(as all of mine end up) will be turbo...but since the Fiero is a MR car I cant use a FMIC without 20+ feet of I/C piping...not an option...so I thought, ok how about a top mount setup...except on problem, the decklid opening is relatively small, about 14x14, not enough airflow to support the type of power this engine will make(roughly 400ft/lbs) so I thought...ok, maybe I can split it up...since after all I have 2 decklid openings...each one 14x14 or so, maybe I can run dual top mounts in an offshoot of the staggered core concept...and better yet, 1st gen DSM Sidemounts are the perfect size...my question is whether under normal operating conditions this would be enough for 300ft/lbs(I can always use a CO2 sprayer those times I wish to make 400ft/lbs...IE high boost) I think this is the only logical I/C setup I can use...except maybe some well designed watercooling system...but watercooling is generally heavier...and I just dont like the idea of pinhole leak somwhere in the system causing hydrolock

[92GreenGT]

Id use meth injection and scrap the top mounts.

[wicked93gs]

the engine will already be running on E85(105 octane ethanol) I'm not sure methanol would cool it enough anyway, I need to be close to ambient air temp

[92GreenGT]

the engine will already be running on E85(105 octane ethanol) I'm not sure methanol would cool it enough anyway, I need to be close to ambient air temp
Meth will do more than you think it will. A buddy of mine is running meth on his mustang with no intercooler and is getting away with 15psi. His temps are like 15 degrees higher than ambient.

I also have meth on my car, but not using it atm on low boost.

[wicked93gs]

also I am not sure you can use meth injection on an ethanol engine...but then I have a standalone for the engine so I am sure I can manage it, if its possible and I can determine what the correct air/fuel ration for an Ethanol/Methanol engine is

[Type R]

Sidemounts, like Porsche's have would work, wouldnt it?

[wicked93gs]

well, yes I could use the side scoops to vent air to sidemounts, but then I would have to find another source for the air inlet for the turbo...good Idea though...I may use it, but I would still need dual intercoolers to support the desired power level...if duals even can...I cant find much info on dual intercooling except for the small section in maximum boost about staggered core intercooling

[Type R]

well, yes I could use the side scoops to vent air to sidemounts, but then I would have to find another source for the air inlet for the turbo...good Idea though...I may use it
Use NACA ducts?

http://xs72.xs.to/pics/06113/NACA.jpg

[wicked93gs]

well, I'd make my sidescoops from scratch...preferably something a bit less ugly than that,
I've been thinking about it though and have decided I would definately get better airflow with the scoops ducted to the SMICs, especially at higher speeds...thanks for the idea, I can only think the only reason didnt think of it before is thats where the stock air intake is...I'll move the intake to one of the decklid vents instead

[4G638U]

Two coolers is going to require a hell of a lot of piping. What about one cooler with meth injection or spray the cooler with nos?

[wicked93gs]

nitrous isnt much colder than CO2...and I will be spraying both coolers with Co2 under high boost, and while 2 I/Cs seems like a lot of piping, its really not any more than a similar FMIC setup, I just have to pipe it from the turbo(distance of maybe a couple feet) to the passenger side I/C and from there to the drivers side I/C, and since TB is on the driver's side with the engine I am using, its a short pipe from the driver side I/C to the TB...but the only problem I have in using DSM SMICs is that the inlets/outlets are too small

[Maximuscr31]

Well a single dsm sidemount can handle 300whp/300tq aon a 16g running meth injection. Alot of guys do that to get around upgrading for a while. The meth not only raises the octane value but it also cools the intake charge temps drastically. The Co2 sprayer isn't gonna help much accept when your sitting in the staging lanes trying to get the heatsoak out of the intercoolers.

[Maximuscr31]

Relationship Between Nitrous Bottle Temperature & Pressure
Temp. (F) Press. (psi) Temp. (F) Press. (psi)
-40° 122 40° 490
-20° 188 50° 565
-10° 225 60° 655
0° 260 70° 735
10° 315 80° 840
20° 365 90° 945
30° 430 98° 1040


also CO2 + Water = Carbonic Acid. It can slowly eat away your intercooler or ur engine bay's paint. So make sure the surface is dry before spraying Co2.

[wicked93gs]

hmm, it seems to me as if my idea might work then, if I do some type of methanol injection as well, its a real pain not being able to run a FMIC...or at least not practically

[Maximuscr31]

another option is two supra sidemounts, heck one supra sidemount is good for 400whp

[Snare Beast]

yup...my stock front mount is good for up to 450 i think..or 400 maybe..

[wicked93gs]

hmm, whats the core size on a Supra I/C? and what inlet/outlet sizes?

[Snare Beast]

2.5 i think.....not for sure exactly, let me do some searching and i'll get back with ya..

[Maximuscr31]

http://www.geocities.com/bennyhoffb/cepadsm/supraicvfaq/

[wicked93gs]

on the high HP applications with these Supra sidemounts...what size of turbo do people usually use? I myself am using a 20g...also what type of airflow does it get in a DSM...is there any direct airflow or is all just ambient?

[Maximuscr31]

90% of people use a scm50 or equivalent. There still are a few hanging onto their 20g's but they just don't make the power as efficiently on most 20g setups.Which size 20g do you have? ported, clipped, or both?

[wicked93gs]

well, first off the engine is a built '04 SRT4 engine with a 9:1 CR(2.4L as opposed to the 2.0L a 20g is usally used on) and the 20g is actually a Hahn S20g, its neither clipped or ported...yet, I may do so if I find it necessary to reach the 400ft/lb goal I am aiming for(with a 2.4 I should be able to reach that with 380WHP or so, which should be just within fairly efficient reach of a "stock" 20g)

[Maximuscr31]

A hahn super 20g will reach 400whp, but it will be pushing alot of heat. I think a supra sidemount will handle it though with a little meth injection.

[wicked93gs]

cool, thanks for all your help...now my only problem will be ducting enough airflow to the I/C from a relatively small sidescoop

[Annihilator]

http://www.fibersmith.net/closeout/images/universalroofscoop4_big.jpg

that's the setup you should use, it's got enough scoops to make a few million horsepower.

sorry, I had to lol...may I ask what motor you're going to be running?

[Type R]

He said a built '04 SRT4 motor Steven, learn to read!! Gah!

[wicked93gs]

I dont know, I think I should add a few more scoops....not quite enough airflow there, wow, thats pretty damn tacky, anyway, yes its an 04 SRT engine

[Kerr]

Meth is gooooooood

Not to be an ass but why a fiero? if you do anything swap a V8 in that bitch with a porsche 930 trans axle. unless times have changed that stock motor was junk. Back when i worked for Pontiac the tech would run and hide from those cars. Again not trying to be a jerk but you might want to double think the drive train... the cars them self look good i think..

[Kerr]

ok i missed the part of the built srt motor.... i suck i know...

[wicked93gs]

The original fiero engines did rather suck, but the car always did handle great...and one thing about fieros...they have the most potential of any car...v8 swaps, supercharged v6 swaps, complete rebodies(for those who like the show side of things) no matter what it is...someone is always modifying a Fiero in a new way, and besides, I wanted a mid engine RWD car for this engine and I couldnt find any MR2s at a reasonable price...another car I would have loved to go for would be the unloved Porsche 914

[RamJam]

totally off topic....but has anyone ever seen the "thing" that was half fiero...with a motorcycle front....and a big wind up key like thing in the back that an old car toy would have...it used to be in bristol alot...i havnt seen it in YEARS though